@bcooley:
“There's really so much that could be done to improve managed performance.”
Yep, with a lot of work, that few percent performance overhead C# currently has over C++ could have been almost completely removed. They chose to improve other areas that they considered more important.
“In any case, it's really a lost opportunity to push what is really a better platform towards covering more of the development stack, at least down into large complex applications, scientific work, or games. Instead the core and app teams decided to fix the module and platform issues with C++ and move forward.”
Haha, no.
The real problem is that most lead people in the Windows/Office teams were left/stayed out of the design of .NET. They didn’t support it at all since the day it was introduced. It doesn’t matter if the Hejlsberg’s team eliminated the little performance difference between C# and C++, they’d just find another aspect to attack it from. They’ve never written a default application for Windows in .NET. Why you think they didn’t? Before you say “performance”, please remember that these very same people just pushed Javascript through right as a core platform into Windows 8.
Why did they do that? Because it’s so f-in popular (http://tinyurl.com/3xutoh)? Because it’s so much more performant than C# (hahaha)? Nope. They brought it in so they can finally attack C# from another perspective than performance.
Watch as suddenly 10%-100%-500% performance difference will stop mattering, and these teams, who never touched .NET, going to use Javascript for a lot of applications. Wondering what exactly the new keywords are going to be, probably either “portability” or “learnability”.
For the career of these high-caliber people within MS, who were left/stayed out of the .NET world, its success is severely counter-beneficial, and would rather see C# dead. With Sinofsky’s recent advancement within the company, they began winning.
Today, the keyword is performance, and we will see as Sinofsky clapping over his head crying they have reduced Window’s stand-by memory consumption by 17(!!!) kilobytes from the developer preview to CTP.
Tomorrow, the keyword will be easy learnability, and we’ll see the UI of several core Windows applications written in Javascript, because that’s such a great way to demonstrate this new (LOL!) language!
The day after tomorrow… They’ll find their keywords, don’t worry.
Of course, I’m not saying they’re all doing it consciously, but if you look at what happened in the past 10 years, it’s pretty obvious that the pushback of .NET’s has very little to do with its actual capabilities, it’s all politics.
True story.
“There's really so much that could be done to improve managed performance.”
Yep, with a lot of work, that few percent performance overhead C# currently has over C++ could have been almost completely removed. They chose to improve other areas that they considered more important.
“In any case, it's really a lost opportunity to push what is really a better platform towards covering more of the development stack, at least down into large complex applications, scientific work, or games. Instead the core and app teams decided to fix the module and platform issues with C++ and move forward.”
Haha, no.
The real problem is that most lead people in the Windows/Office teams were left/stayed out of the design of .NET. They didn’t support it at all since the day it was introduced. It doesn’t matter if the Hejlsberg’s team eliminated the little performance difference between C# and C++, they’d just find another aspect to attack it from. They’ve never written a default application for Windows in .NET. Why you think they didn’t? Before you say “performance”, please remember that these very same people just pushed Javascript through right as a core platform into Windows 8.
Why did they do that? Because it’s so f-in popular (http://tinyurl.com/3xutoh)? Because it’s so much more performant than C# (hahaha)? Nope. They brought it in so they can finally attack C# from another perspective than performance.
Watch as suddenly 10%-100%-500% performance difference will stop mattering, and these teams, who never touched .NET, going to use Javascript for a lot of applications. Wondering what exactly the new keywords are going to be, probably either “portability” or “learnability”.
For the career of these high-caliber people within MS, who were left/stayed out of the .NET world, its success is severely counter-beneficial, and would rather see C# dead. With Sinofsky’s recent advancement within the company, they began winning.
Today, the keyword is performance, and we will see as Sinofsky clapping over his head crying they have reduced Window’s stand-by memory consumption by 17(!!!) kilobytes from the developer preview to CTP.
Tomorrow, the keyword will be easy learnability, and we’ll see the UI of several core Windows applications written in Javascript, because that’s such a great way to demonstrate this new (LOL!) language!
The day after tomorrow… They’ll find their keywords, don’t worry.
Of course, I’m not saying they’re all doing it consciously, but if you look at what happened in the past 10 years, it’s pretty obvious that the pushback of .NET’s has very little to do with its actual capabilities, it’s all politics.
True story.
posted by niall